Who was Oliver Cromwell :
Form the lecturer by Dr. Mecheal Ó Sugrú we learn about Oliver Cromwell , we learn that infact although he became ruler of a great country he was not born into nobility, no infact Oliver Cromwell was not even wealthy, he was a simply a land owner indeed he was if anything a glorified farmer, so why is it that a farmer can plot to over through the king (Charles I), succeed and gain the support of parliament and the military and become ruler of an entire empire. Why could just an ordinary man be remembered for a legacy which has lasted for over 350 years a legacy which is divided into to opinions hatred and admiration. Why is it that the whole of Ireland north and south remembers Cromwell for being an evil villain yet most of England portrays him as a hero.
Well this is what I`m going to try and explain. Oliver Cromwell grew up on a small farm in the midlands of England, he was not a successful farmer in fact he was in debt. He was married and had children. However he` suffered from great depression, infact he suffered from depression so much so that he contemplated emigrating to America, he even purchased a ticket and had every intention of going right up until a few days before the voyage. Why did he back out?. Well the night before he and his family were due to sail he got an awaking from god or so he clamed, he now had a propose in life he was driven, it was his responsibility according to god to strengthen the protestant religion and to change England for the better by getting rid of hierarchy.
After this Oliver became interested in politics, then in 1640 he joins parliament , whilst in parliament “king Charles I” marries a French catholic woman this issue divides parliament greatly and in 1642 civil war breaks out, Cromwell sees this as an opportunity to get rid of the king as he does not believe in hierarchy, and he is also “puroton”(extreme protestant), from the civil war Cromwell is remembered as a great general who is willing to fight side by side to his soldiers, an alien concept which previous generals had not dared to do, from this act of bravery he won the respect of the military.
In 1646 the civil war ends with the king and parliament agreeing to come up with a compromise, however this is not satisfactory to Cromwell and he then decides to lead a revolution agenst the king to execute him, not only does Cromwell have the support of the parliament but he also has the vital support from the military. In 1649 he beheads the king. Oliver Cromwell was then nominated successor to the throne, however he declines the offer to become king of England as he does not believe in hierarchy , but instead accepts the title of “lord ruler and protector of England“ (king in all but name). This is when we see what kind of ruler Oliver Cromwell is really like it is from this point on that Oliver Cromwell is remembered for two completely different reasons. In August 1649 oliver Cromwell visits Ireland, however all does not go well. The first port of call for Cromwell is “Rings End” “Dublin“, It is from this point on that we see sheer brutality and slaughter at the mercy of oliver Cromwell. When he landed in Dublin his second port of call was the “Drogheda garrison” . when the garrison refused to be captured by Cromwell he bombarded the gates with his cavalry and slaughtered every man woman and child within the walls, he then marched down to the “Wexford garrison”, where he repeated the same act of brutality. Cromwell justified these actions by two explainations, 1 that it was gods will and 2 that the Irish catholic people deserved this as they had done the very same to plantation protestants who had immigrated into Ireland.
Cromwell taught that by doing this to the Irish it would make them realise that they had no chance of getting there land back and that they would simply subside and allow England to take over Ireland, however this had an adverse affect on the Irish as they came to the conclusion that if they were going to die they mite as well die fighting for their country.
Although Cromwell was only in Ireland for a total of six months he killed more people in his time here than the great potato famine, Irelands population dropped down to a third. It is this legacy that oliver Cromwell is remembered for by the Irish people.
Over in England Cromwell is remembered as the man who got rid of the king and made England a republic he gave the English (majority) a voice, it is this that Cromwell is remembered for over in great Britain.
In conclusion whether you love or hate Cromwell you have to admit he was a great man, he was a man who had the vision to change battle tactics, gain the support of an entire military, get backing from the parliment of the biggest and most powerful country in the world. And all this from a man who was born into a simple family who had but a simple farm. Oliver Cromwell died on the 3rd of October 1658 the day he said he would die. October the 3rd is also the Anerversy he won his major battles on, is this faith or a coincidence. Il leave that for you to decide.
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19 comments:
please excuse the spelling and grammer in this blog.
What do the class think? Cromwell a villain or misunderstood? Does everyone in England like him? Does everyone in Ireland hate him?
like everyhing in history ther s always two sides to the coin and whilst i cannot speak for the class, it is clear form the lecture that not all english people did like cromwell, however the majority of english did. like wise in ireland, most of the irish popuklation in the 1600`s nd early 1700` dispised cromwell for the shere brutality he showed the irish people. my personal fiew on cromwell is that he was no doubt a vlan in irish history, however i have to admit i do somwhat admire him , for his leadership qualitys alone .
not acutally related just thought the class should know:patrick has his own little radio show on newstalk on sundays between 7 n 9 at night
from what the lecturer said about Oliver Cromwell i do not think he was a villain!!
Cromwell was just a man with an stronge ambition to break down the walls of hierarchy an have a country that is equal.
He didnt like the way the king ruled the country an took matters into his own hands an gave the people who disliked the king a chance to be heard, and a chance to live in the type of country they always wanted.
Cromwell was loved by so many of the english people because he was brave and a good leader who did not think himself to be higher up or better than the rest of the country! the people who didnt like him in England where probly afraid of change and having to think for themself.
As for the slaughter an brutality he showed the Irish people obviously i do not agree but i think he should be forgivin for his mistakes as at the time of these wars he started it was the norm. Cromwell cannot be entirly blamed for what he did to the Irish, these were the times he was brought up in and this was how he was thought to act!!
If Cromwell was to rise to power today he would act differently, he would still have the skills he possesed in the 1600's but he would gain the skills of knowing right and wrong.
As for him saying god spoke directly to him, whos to say he didnt!?? People all over the world hear callings from god thats why some people become nuns an preists!
Maybe he takes it to far by saying god justifys his killings, but i have no doubt that he heard a calling from god when he was in his state of depression what every it may have been, because he got his life back on track an chose to do something with himself.
Many Irish people will hate me for saying this but i have to..
I admire Oliver Cromwell!
he came for a normal family and was a farmer who saw a chance to follow his dream of breaking down hierarchy and took it!!
In this day and age people let there dreams slip through their fingers because they dont think they can do it or they dont think their from the right backround, well Oliver Cromwell ignored all that and went after what he belived in and i think that should be admired!
The part that really stuck out for me was that after all his struggle to free England from hierarchal rule he allowed the government of the time to instate him as “Lord Protector” a position that in many of the above posts has been described as “King in All But Name.” The Question I pose is, did he seek to obtain this position or were the English not ready to be without a monarch and thus thrust monarchic traits upon Cromwell.
I missed the lecture due to my bus… but in the notes I took from Chris and Ellen (thanks guys) it’s clearly stated that Cromwell was offered the position of king after the execution of Charles I. After two failed parliaments (the rump and the barebones) It seems that only in bringing Cromwell up to this kinglike status could the government be normalized. Cromwell obviously spent a lot of time in expelling his parliament of royalists, There were still loyalist uprisings; these were death with harshly and quickly. Also there was his reoccurring frustration, at the parliaments of the time and they’re inability to promote reform.
In his first ascent to the Protectorate he wore basic black clothes; the ceremony itself was short and has been described as somber, nothing like the lavish act of coronation. However he was still referenced as “His Highness”, his daughters took the title of princesses and he was eventually dubbing knights! Cromwell was later called upon to reaffirm his position as Lord Protector, this second ceremony was said to be closer to a coronation, he wore ceremonial robes and accepted the physical trappings of kinghood (a sword and scepter).
So was he clever or greedy? I think it was in the interest of the British people to have one singular strong and decisive leader that they could look up to. Cromwell reluctantly adopted the role of king in all but name to try appease the people and give a little direction to the flagging government…
Did I do that right? I’m never missing one of those lectures ever again! Bring on William Wallace!
thats great that patrick has his own talk show on newstlk but F.Y.I. (to the whole class) I have my own show on Tfm of a wensday...
to those of you who are particulary intrested in cromwell, try looking on the trinity link site www.englishtimes.co.uk or the oxford cronicals these two sites have thousands of facts and stories about cromwell, jessica if you admire cromwell so much, did you know you can read a great deal of the speaches and and letters he wrote to parlimend and his collige`s from the formentioned sites.
keep posting your comments ter all great so far.
although jessicka has made some very good points i must however pull her up on one of them, yes Comwell grew up in a mediveal age where torcher and the likes was the norm however, not every one of that eira was going around sacrifising inecont lives to knock down the system of hieararchy so why should it be his duty todo so, yes if cromwell was around today he would know that mass jeniside was wrong, i firmlly belive he knew quite well as to what he was doing when he came over to ireland, he wanted power and money thats the reasion he choped down trees and tore down castles and items of huge iconic and sentemital value to the irish people, he tryed to break there spirit and then go in all gun blasing. i for one do admire cromwell as a general for his revolusionary tactics and for being so brave as to stand up to the king, however i simply cannot acclam the fact to eginerance that cromwell did not know what was rite from wrong.
I entirely disagree with jessica because i think Cromwell was a pure blood thirsty villain.He was a ruthless leader he was only in Ireland for nine months from 1649-1650 but in that shorth period the mad man in my opinion left a legacy for over 350 years
In August 1649 his first Irish target was in Droheada.When they refused to surrender he slaughtered 3000 Irish men and also killing many civilain I really hate the way he justified himself by saying he was the chosing one and God told him what to do.After his actions in Ireland the Irish population dropped by a third how can anybody justify these actions.
In my opinion he was like Hitler to a certain extent his relations towards Irish Roman Catholics was like Hitlers towards the Jews.He executed many priest's and bishops
Cromwell was't loved by all the english people Unionist hated him because he was a radical extreamist and he executed the king.
The majority of English people loved him there is only 3 statues outside the English parliament and there is one of Oliver cromwell also (Nelson Mandela and richard the lion hart)
I really don't like Cromwell but i to to admit his rise to power was incredible and when in power the way he ran the military was outstanding for a man with no military exsperience,but he had a natural flare for warfare his calvary was the real BLITZ CREIG of the 17th century
I think Jessica and Leo have some good points to make. Cromwell needs to be assessed as a man of his times and in many ways he was compling with contemporary rules of war. He did ask the garrison of Drogheda to surrender before the massacre? Does this eman he hoped to advert mass killing or would he have killed them if they did surrender? We'll be looking at some documents in class today which will shed some more light on the man himself.
thats a good question charlene, would cromwelll have killed all thoes people in the garrison if they had of surrendered,in my opinion yes. I have every confidence that Oliver Cromwell knew that the Garrosons would not surrender without a fight, and the fack that he said it was gods will and that its there just desserts for what they dont to the plantation prodistants just proves this in my eyes.
leo,
I agree with what you said, not all of the english liked cromwell, as ther were still loylist to the king around who still wanted King Charles I as head of state, however even today his leggecy is so much so that the British Parliment have erected a statue out side teh houes of parliment as a tribute, and like you said leo. he is becide the likes of nelison mandella and the lion heart really great people who have done a world of good. this just goes to show that the Irish point of view and the English point of view about cromwell are very different indeed.
I think Cromwell was a great leader who led from the front line alongside his troops and he must be given some admiration for this. In the 17th century the majority of commanders did just that they commanded their troops they did not lead them. Also Cromwell’s army were no joke Cromwell devised a method that involved grouping his troops then going in for the initial impact and regrouping and returning for a second round! This method was introduce by Cromwell in the 17th century this I feel was a huge contemporary move by Cromwell people in the 17th century were traditional and Cromwell has shattering these traditions what is more remarkable is that he had support in doing so!
I agree with Leo he committed acts of complete injustice to our standards today but as Charlene said he should be treated as a man of his time! The moral standard in the 17th century were of radical difference than today and is it possibly just our 21st century assumptions that are allowing us to so quickly condemn Cromwell??
I think Cromwell is a hero he rose to power with pure determination, I do admit he may have been an extremist but this just conveys his dedication to the cause! I feel we are possibly allowing the fact that we ourselves are Irish affect our judgement of this man. If I could ask one question I would ask this if you guys were outsiders with no patriotic or otherwise influential bias would you be so quick to put Cromwell down??
I completely disagree with lee!!!
on no level was cromwell as bad as Hitler!!
yes he did murder inocent people but not in the cruel heartless way Hitler set out to!!
Cromwell gave the people in the Garroson a chance to surrender an although he probly knew they wouldnt and he'd have to kill them he gave them the option an i truely belive that if they had of surrenderd he would have showed mercy, because Cromwell was a great leader an his followers looked up to him, so to keep your followers trust you must be a man of your word!!
Cromwell may have done some wrong in his time but by no means atal should he be compared to a man with no soul like hitler!!!
Cromwell was a man who saw his chance and took it with open hands in my opinion.The English people of the time looked upon Ireland as a savage barbarian country in comparisson to England.And the people of England were right in their veiw cause conpared to England we were.They had their parliament their royalty their hierarchal society.Where as Ireland didn't have a parliament a royal family and the army compared to the english one was a joke.
So Cromwell saw his chance to take more land earn money take cheap slaves pay his army all in one go.When he invaded Ireland in 1649 he followed all the rules of warfare at the time and gave the govener of drogheda the chance to surrender which he choose to turn down.So even though Cromwell and his army slaughtered the garisson of soliders and many innocent civilans.Partial blame has to lie with the govenor of drogheda as he must of known that his army stood no chance against the professional outfit of english soliders and that they would then be ruthlessly slaughtered.Yeah Cromwell was very brutal with the way he killed many innocent people but in his eyes he was helping rid the world of catholics as he hated them so much being such a staunch protestant.
Irish people are too over critical of Cromwell cause he invaded Ireland and can only it see from a irish prospective and also cause he invaded Ireland in the first place.But if you look at it from the english point of view Ireland was there for the taking and he took his chance.
I think he is also viewed as such as hero in England cause he stood up against the monarchy of the time and made a difference and also cause technically speaking he was the first ruler of Great britian and Ireland
Ok Jessica I was a little harsh on Oliver Cromwell by comparing him to Hitler But his hate for Catholics was very strong i read a few articles on Cromwell and him and his Parliaments tried to ban Christmas
THIS IS A LITTLE PASSAGE OUT OF ONE OF THESE ARTICLES.
"Reputed actions of these latter-day Scrooges are nothing compared to the efforts of Oliver Cromwell's Parliaments.
Exactly 350 years ago, on Christmas Day 1656, Parliament met to consider further measures against what one MP called "this foolish day's solemnities". Puritans argued Christmas was a Catholic relic which, they not unreasonably suggested, simply provided an excuse for drunkenness and gluttony. In 1646 Parliament's new form of public worship had explicitly outlawed the festival, and in 1647 the Commons had passed a law suppressing the feast, an ordinance that was re-issued throughout the 1650s.
These laws were, however, honoured more in the breach than the observance"
This is another reason for my dislike for Cromwell ok Jessica ha
It doesn't matter if you like or hate Cromwell, he did so much in such a short time, he climbed from obscurity to be the king of england in all but name, he was able to take down a government, he was able inspire loyalty in his men, and he had an amazing insight into politics and warfare. Cromwell diserves respect and a place in history no matter how horrible he was!!
chris i have to agree with you, what ever your views are about Oliver Cromwell, one thing is certen you have to admire him.
(there`s one thing howevre i feel that was left out at the lecture and that is the most famious quotation that cromwell mad whilst in Ireland "To Hell or to Conucht" what this referes to is that the Irish people either do as he wishes and go to Conucht or deal with teh helish concquences that would no dought be very bloody torcherious and very inhumain indeed.)
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